In All Things Obedient to God

This posting is a direct response to comments posted under “Government Ordained by God”, and as a result, the response directs itself to the specific questions or statements made by the Commentator, but the response is not directed at the Commentator, but at us ALL. I apologize for the lengthiness, but I felt it important to not linger by drawing this response out over several days of postings; although there will be a second one as you will see further into this posting.

I believe the Commentator and I are in more agreement than one would suspect at first glance.

But before I get to the questions, I’d like to say this: there is a dangerous movement within our own country that is seeking to cause the citizens of our country to rebel against the government. It is insidious, it is deceptive, and it is anti-Biblical. As Christians, we are to be always on guard, making sure that the things which we speak and preach, the things that we believe in and stand for, are not inadvertently feeding into evil such as this, even as we expose evil (in God’s way, not our own) as we are commanded to do. In all things we are to be obedient to God.

I believe that the founding fathers of this nation were doing their best to be obedient to God, in ALL things, even when they sometimes failed to reach that goal. I believe that they were doing it much better than we are today. But if they were in all things obedient to God, as I believe was their goal, then REBELLION was not in their hearts. What WAS in their hearts was the desire to be OBEDIENT TO GOD, and the DEFENSE both of the Word of God by which they lived and the right to live according to all of its precepts.

If out of obedience to God, a believer does not give obeyance to another, by this we may say that he is “rebelling” against that one in authority. But his actions are motivated by OBEDIENCE TO GOD, NOT REBELLION. He is not resisting the authority, he is simply obeying God. This was the case for Daniel, Meshack, Shadrack and Abednego.

But to rebel, even against an evil tyrant, believing that this, in and of itself, is obedience to God is not biblical. I therefore disagree with the validity of the quote by Benjamin Franklin: “Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.” I trust you will see why I disagree with his statement by the end of these two postings. In my disagreement with his statement, I do not attack his character, only his mis-statement brought on, I am sure, by his zeal.

This isn’t as simple as choosing which word we want to apply to our actions: rebellion or obedience. I believe that we must be very clear in our understanding that this is much more than that. In many areas, we are only one small step away from crossing over the line from obedience into disobedience. In all areas, we must be careful to clarify our motives that produce our actions, making sure that our motives are out of obedience to God first, foremost, and only. And that obedience must be to ALL that He says.

We have been told to “resist the devil and he will flee from you” (James 4:7). In the proper context of the scripture that this passage is found in, does anyone believe this was speaking of Hitler or Stalin or the King of England or the President of the United States? I hope not! When we “resist” outside of the parameters of God, we are not doing it in the Spirit of God, but in the Spirit of the rebellious one, Satan. It is found in carnal or fleshly thinking, but not in spiritual thinking. Carnal thinking rebels against God even when it does “good” for God. This is because carnal thinking does what is good in the eyes of the carnal one, in their own thinking rather than God’s. (Romans 8)

For example, what we are doing might be "right", but if it is not in God’s perfect timing (which we impatient frail human beings have a difficult time waiting on) then it is rebellion. Then again we can do “right” in ways that are not as God would have us do. Does the end justify the means? Not according to God who wants us to do as He thinks, not as we think. And always, when we have to choose between doing things God’s way or our way, especially when we do not understand or agree with His thinking, when it doesn’t seem to make any sense to us at all, our hearts will show to whom we truly have our allegiance: God or Satan. Rebellion can happen to us individually, and it can happen to nations.

I don't believe Christians will ever be a part of that. Before you jump to any conclusions however, thinking that this means Christians are to do nothing in the face of evil, I ask you humbly to wait until you have read all of this posting and all of the next posting as well, as it is impossible to say all that needs to be said in this one posting which is already going to be very, very long.

Now on to the Commentator’s points, which I have highlighted in bold print:

“From the birth of this Nation, and before America separated from Great Britain, our Founding Fathers (and other notable individuals in America’s history) were a religious group. There is much back and forth as to whether some were Deists or out-right believers in Jesus Christ.”

I agree 100% with this statement. I recently heard a very good talk given by a man named David Barton about our founding fathers. He has an organization called “Wallbuilders” that is trying to build up again the walls of our nations foundation that have been crumbled by anti-religion forces, and he claims (and validates his claims) that our nation WAS founded by men who were led of God. He gave some excellent information this video which can be seen by going to http://www.intouch.org clicking on video archives, and then going to the video titled “Is America a Christian Nation?” in July 2009. It was also aired again by In Touch Ministries in November of 2009.

I also agree with every historical and biblical quote that the Commentator provided (well-done!) with the exception of the one by Benjamin Franklin already mentioned, which I believe is in fact contrary to God; but then, we all mis-state things at times, even when our hearts do want to serve and be obedient to God. We are frail, as Benjamin Franklin was frail.

However, if agreeing with all the historical and biblical quotes makes it appear as though I agree with “speaking evil” of our government and our President, or continuing the carrying forth of “rumors” meant to incite the population to revolt (as was tragically exhibited in the recent attack on the Pentagon by a lone gunman), please let me be clear, I neither agree with nor condone these actions, for I see no biblical mandate instructing us to do these things.

I see instead that we are to pray for those in authority, even Kings, which means praying for our governmental or civil leaders (I Tim. 2:1-2). The problem is that many of those in this country who are given to speak ill of the government and the President, spend more time doing that, and less time praying for them as we are instructed to do by the Word of God.

I therefore object strenuously to the practice of “bashing” our leaders, and I believe God does as well. He has told us we are accountable for every idle word spoken (Matthew 12:36). I believe He means for us to watch every word that we speak, and to make the best, and most Godly, use of them all. As we do when we glorify God; NOT when we glorify evil by raising it to a higher status than God by spending more time speaking of evil than we do speaking of Jesus. Those who do such things cannot know God. They cannot know MY Jesus.

The following is an example of religious people who thought rebellion was obedience to God:

Many years after the time of Jesus, the Zealots rebelled against the Romans, leading to the total destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and the deaths of a million Jews, including innocent men, women and children who had just arrived in Jerusalem not to rebel, but in order to comply with the feast day requirements of their God, and were trapped inside the city walls, where they eventually died from either starvation or the sword. The few Jews who survived were taken for slaves. Those who managed to escape the city walls and flee into the mountains (see Luke 21) never returned to Jerusalem, but were scattered into other countries (known as the Jewish diaspora) until the Lord began to draw them home again in 1948 (as prophesied) where they now remain until the Lord’s return at which time Jerusalem will cease to be trampled on by the Gentiles (Islam specifically.) The Zealots even went so far as to murder any Jew who suggested surrender to the Romans. In the end, Jerusalem was destroyed, and the Jews were scattered and homeless.

So what did the Zealots rebel against? Unfair taxes, and the taking of a census, which they determined was a sin as God called it sin when David went to count how many troops he had (one more misunderstood teaching of God, for the census itself was not what God called sin, David’s reliance on the quantity of his troops instead of on God alone was the sin. Ezra took a census of those returning to Jerusalem with him from Babylon – Ezra 8 – and was not charged with sin, because a census in itself is not sin.) In addition, there had been the occasional and general persecutions, and mockery and/or abuse of Jewish religious practices, things guaranteed to happen to us even today by Jesus Himself. Most of all the Zealots fought for liberty.
So which of these things are we specifically instructed by Jesus to fight for or rebel against today? Which of those things did Jesus Himself fight for? Where are the words of Jesus that show us Christians (followers of Christ) that He expects us to do this? We must ask ourselves: Are we being led by Jesus or by popular culture, whether secular or Christian?

Maybe we should look more specifically at what the patriots of the American Revolution were fighting for as mentioned by the Commentator’s next question. The Declaration of Independence has 27 points listing exactly what the colonists were fighting for, every one of them directed against the actions of the King of England. You can read it here: http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/freedom/

“As you know, a group of individuals believed the King of England was unjustified in his treatment of the Colonies…from taxation to the laws imposed upon them. They did not adhere to what Paul says in Romans 13:1-7”

Further forward in Romans 12:18-19 Paul says this: “If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, VENGEANCE IS MINE; I WILL REPAY, saith the Lord…..Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Then he went on to say in Romans 13:1-2 “Let every soul be subject to the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.”

So, in answer to your question, at first glance it would appear that they did not adhere to the letter of what Paul said, although we are sure that they HAD tried as much as was possible to live peaceably with England. But again, I believe they were “defending” something, not “avenging” something. And as far as resisting, again, was it resistance or was it defense? To their credit, they did not forsake God in any of these dealings. It appears they sought Him mightily with fastings and prayer regularly and for long periods of time (as of course, we ourselves do frequently these days as well, right?) And they appeared to LIVE in their Bibles (hmmm, as we....?)

I don’t know why their list of “reasons” for their declaring independence from Great Britain seems to sound more secular than Christian, although completely moral (one of the patriot preachers mentioned something about not separating religion from morality, which I also agree is quite true) maybe they felt they were stating their religious beliefs by stating their moral beliefs about rights that should be equal to every human being, all of which, in their cases, at least (not always ours today) was brought forth out of their study of scriptures; by their living-out daily of the scriptures!

Nevertheless, “God will be merciful to whom He will be merciful”. Nothing done here by God or man, prevents us from still preaching the Word of God exactly as it is, while striving to live by it to the best of our ability and encouraging others to do so as well.

We might remember also that most likely many of these patriots were descendants of Puritan stock, of the Pilgrims who risked all to come to a new country in order to not only escape religious persecution, but also to establish and spread their Christian beliefs. I know for a fact that John Adams, his cousin, Samuel Adams, and Benjamin Franklin were of Puritan stock. How many others were also?

Under the 1559 Act of Uniformity in Great Britain, it was illegal not to attend official Church of England services, with a fine of 12d (£0.05; 2005 equivalent: about £5) for each missed Sunday and holy day. The penalties for conducting unofficial services included imprisonment and larger fines. Under the policy of this time, Barrowe and Greenwood [Separatist Puritans] were executed for sedition in 1593.

See the Journal of the Pilgrim, William Bradford here for more quotes about why they fled England: http://www.pilgrimhall.org

The final thing is that these colonists were no longer living in the same land as the King of England. They were removed by a great expanse from the land of Britain. Perhaps they came to look upon themselves as being separate from the King altogether (the Puritans were actually first called Separatists themselves). We all have a right to flee persecution, given by God, even directed by God as He forewarned the inhabitants of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. to flee to the mountains. Nevertheless, in ALL things we must KNOW that we are being obedient to God; whether to defend, or to flee, or to stay. I don’t compare the colonists living in a land far away from Great Britain, with those within our own borders who want to rebel against their own government. There is too much for us to do that we are NOT doing that IS ordained by God; we have no time to spend in rebellion. We are told to “occupy” until the Lord returns, which will be the subject of the second posting.

“If we agree that our country and those who were here at the birth of this great Nation exemplified Christian tendencies; did our Founding Fathers go against Jesus’ commandment to “...practice and observe whatever they tell you...”?

A preacher of much renown at the time of the American Revolution (actually he died five years prior to the Revolution but was nonetheless a very influential part), Reverend George Whitefield, encouraged in his sermons the separation of the colonies from Great Britain because England wanted to force its own established religion onto the colonists. They did not view it as the same religion at all, as their own which they believed was biblical. They did not believe that the Kings and Queens of England who dictated what the religion would consist of were “sitting in the seat of Moses”, not even close. They believed the Kings and Queens were secular, and that religion was not to be ordered about by the secular. Study the histories of some of these leaders such as King Henry VIII and Mary Queen of Scots (called “Bloody Mary” because of her persecution of those who did not agree with her religion.)

So when those tyrants of religious freedom came to the colonies in an attempt to enslave again those that had escaped from their clutches, the American patriots (MANY of whom were preachers known by the British as the “Black Regiment” because of their clothing) rose up with prayer and courage and direction from God through His Word, and defended their right to be there, their right to have flown to another land, their right to practice religion according to God.

One of those members of the Black Regiment was Reverend Jonas Clark of Lexington. He led the first attack against the British landing on American soil (the shot heard round the world) with men from his congregation, and just before they arrived on the battle site (Lexington Green) he said this to his church: “God blesses defensive war, not offensive war. Do not fire the first shot, but let them do so.” Paul Revere’s famous ride went right to Rev. Clark’s home both because Clark was a significant political leader as well as preacher, and because staying at his home at that moment were two other political leaders: Samuel Adams and John Hancock. At the end of the battle, 18 Americans lay on the Green, 8 dead, 10 wounded: all members of Rev. Clark’s church.

David himself prayed: “Deliver me from mine enemies, O my God: defend me from them that rise up against me.” Psalm 59:1

The key is that prayer goes before the deliverance, that God is sought prior to the battle, all of which the colonists appear to have done. God honored their seeking of Him. And He defended the colonies.

I see defense and rebellion as two very different things.

And when I say defense, I mean also defending the rights of human beings in foreign places who are unable to protect themselves against evil. I do pray that God continues to use this nation to help others, many others, no matter how far away. That’s why America is at war, in my opinion. They aren’t there to take those lands as a conquest, they are there to help those who cannot help themselves. And at the same time, they are hoping to protect our own homeland from the spread of that evil into it.

“Is it not correct to say that some authorities placed over Man are evil?”

I think it is absolutely correct to say that some authorities placed over Man are evil, but as McGuffy said in the quote provided when he referred to God as “...the great moral Governor of the universe...”, I also believe that God is the Governor of all, the entire universe, including evil governments and evil nations. This means to me that whether those governments are evil or Godly, He has them in place for a reason, as He did Judas; He is permitting them to be evil for a reason and only for a season, as He did Satan with Job; and He is in control, whether they think He is or not, whether they acknowledge Him or not (as I said in my earlier posting.)

If we are to acknowledge that God is sovereign, we cannot acknowledge His sovereignty over some things only, but not ALL things. Either He is sovereign in the fullest sense of the word, or He is not. We know that He is.

And we must accept that there are times when God allows a nation to be placed under bondage for its own good and for His own purposes that we might not comprehend, and that cannot happen without having in place the pagan nation that God uses to take the nation captive in the first place. Are we to rebel at this if it is God’s plan for us? Here is an example of a nation who DID rebel at God’s plan for them (do not attempt to relegate this example as pertinent to the Old Testament only and therefore no longer relevant in this day and age, for my bible tells me that God never changes; what He did then, He can do again today, if the need arises to do so, even in our own nation, should it become completely Godless and idolatrous):
In Jeremiah 38, the prophet warned Zedekiah, then King of Judah, not to rebel, but to surrender to the Chaldeans, to Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon. The people, hearing Jeremiah’s prophecy, rebuked the prophet and pleaded with Zedekiah to not heed his words for they said Jeremiah didn’t have the good of the people in his heart, but harm. By all appearances to anyone who is not led of God, the speech of the people against Jeremiah is correct and absolutely understandable, why would anyone in their right mind surrender to become slaves? Why would they not put up a fight? But God does things in ways that we do not understand, in ways that we cannot even begin at times to comprehend. And He commanded them to surrender. They did not, and you can read for yourself what the consequences were to those who rebelled.

God’s plan was for Israel to go into captivity for 70 years. He was very specific about why they would suffer this, and He was very specific about how long they would suffer. (As any honorable, patient, good but stern Father would do..."here’s why you’re going into time-out and here’s for how long.") It was His will for them to suffer this! And it was for their good!

So who should they have heeded? Who would we heed today? The Word of God (the prophet) or the culture (the people)?

“Are there not times when we are to obey God rather than those placed in authority over them?”

EVERY time we are to obey God rather than those placed in authority over us; but again, obedience to God often means obedience to those in authority over us, even when those in authority over us are wrong.

“Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God” Col 3:22
It is the fear of God that provides us the singleness of heart (and the grace) to serve our masters (whether governmental or religious) in obedience to God. It is the fear of God then that would prevent us from rebelling against those same masters, thereby rebelling against God.

I believe when we take matters into our own hands, often we do this because we doubt that God is going to do what we believe needs to be done. Doubt, lack of faith, is rebellion against God also. We set ourselves up (pride) as knowing better than God – MORE rebellion! When more folks are doing this than those that are following God, anarchy reigns! Beware, lest any of us fall into this same thinking.

"I cannot believe that we, as Christians, are to stand by idly and say or do nothing when we see injustices occur no matter if the injustice comes from an individual or our government. I believe we are to follow the laws and rules given by our government, but I do believe there are situations that occur when we are to make a stand for what is right and godly. “If we do not stand for something, we are doomed to fall for anything.”

There are many things we are to do, and can do, without being in rebellion. This is no time to be idle at all, as the end draws near.

But there are Zealots in the land who are rebelling even now against our government, calling the IRS tyrants, calling taxes unfair bondage. Zealots who claim to be doing the will of God by their acts of rebellion; but they are deceived.

Being a former business owner, I heartily disliked doing the tremendous amount of paperwork that the IRS, or local and state governments required. I cringed each year we paid taxes. I fought against those in our own company who thought we should “avoid” taxes by ANY means possible. I do not LOVE many of the things that our government does.

But all that I do, no matter how much suffering it causes me, whether it is government paperwork, or paying taxes, or whatever it is, I am commanded to do all as unto God, our Faithful Creator (I Peter 4:19). Then am I to complain as I pay those taxes...is that how God would have me do it as unto Him? Am I to cleverly find ways to avoid paying taxes, treading a fine line, or even crossing the line, between truth and falsehood? Is that doing business as unto God? Or am I to be diligent and “not slothful in business” as a statement of belonging to God and not the world? (Romans 12:11)

God’s Word says that we are to render unto the IRS (Caesar) what is the IRS’s. What the IRS (or Caesar) does with the money is something they are responsible and accountable to God for. Not us. We are only responsible to obey the Word of God. The same is true of our tithes and offerings to the local church. We are to be obedient to tithe and give offerings to our local church with cheerful hearts; the church rulers (the elders) are responsible to prayerfully use God’s funds in the ways God wants them to be used. That is not our responsibility, it is the Elders.

What we ARE responsible for while “occupying” will be discussed in the next posting. Please wait for and read the next posting before commenting, as additional questions might be answered in that posting.